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Category: Money

Reflection for October 28

Today’s passage is from Luke 12:13-34.

One day, while Jesus was hammering the Pharisees about their hypocrisy, two brothers showed up. One of the brothers was waiting on the other to give him his share of the inheritance. For whatever reason, that brother had refused to do it, so the first brother decided to ask Jesus to make him divide the inheritance.

Jesus’ response was great…”Man, who appointed me as a judge or an arbiter between you?”

That’s all he said to the man, but then he turned to the crowd and said, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions” (Mark 12:15).

I remember hearing Tim Keller talk about this passage. He says you don’t have to tell a person to watch out with adultery. If you’re committing adultery you know it. But greed is different. It’s tricky. It’s possible to be greedy and to be unaware of it. And unaware of its consequences.

Before going any farther, let me mention that when Jesus wanted a truth to really sink in, he told a story. And that’s what he does here.

There was a rich man who had an abundant harvest. This was obviously great news, but he didn’t have a place to store the abundance of crops. So he decided to tear down his barns and build bigger ones.

Pause here…this sounds to me like a wise steward, something that Jesus at other times commends. The man acknowledges that his crops have produced a harvest greater than expected. He doesn’t want them to go bad, so he’s going to invest his money into building bigger barns. Again, it sounds good.

But then the man said, “Then I’ll say to myself, ‘You have plenty of grain laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry.”

God’s response to the man’s attitude: “You fool! This very night your life will be demanded from you. Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?”

I think this is a very specific situation, but I think this man falls prey to something that is very common. He believes that because of this abundance, he no longer needs God. And I believe that it is this attitude that turns him from a wise steward to a fool.

So Jesus begins to talk to them about how they can trust God to give them what they need. He says,

“Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat; or about your body, what you will wear. For life is more than food, and the body more than clothes. Consider the ravens: They do not sow or reap, they have no storeroom or barn (contrasted with the foolish rich man); yet God feeds them. And how much more valuable you are than birds! Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to your life? Since you cannot do this very little thing, why do you worry about the rest?” (Luke 12:22-26).

He goes on to say,

“And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well” (Luke 12:29-31).

One of the things I’ve learned in these fifty years of living is that money is complex. It can be a tool that you use or a god that uses you. You can learn how to master money, or you can be mastered by money. And as is seen in this story, it’s more a matter of the heart than it is of certain decisions. The decisions come from our attitudes.

It’s wise to save money. It’s wise to invest so that you can take advantage of God’s gifts. But it turns to foolishness very quickly when we believe the lie that we’ve produced it all and no longer need God.

Here’s a great song that comes from this passage.

Gratitude and Contentment

I consider gratitude and contentment to be super powers. In a way they are such simple things. We teach kids from an early age to say thank you, and we encourage them to play with and enjoy the toys that they have rather than always wanting more. Gratitude and contentment are practices. They require intentionality. They require practice.

If I’m going to become a grateful person, I must practice gratitude. How do I do this? One exercise is to take a couple of minutes and write down 10 possessions that you enjoy, that bring you happiness, and that you are in turn grateful for. So often we take things for granted. I remember when we bought our current house almost ten years ago. After we moved in, there were so many things that Mandy and I were grateful for. Our previous home was on a corner lot and therefore didn’t have a driveway. A driveway is not a huge thing, and it was something that we got used to not having. But now we had one, and it was great. It meant we could get a basketball goal. And it meant at least one of us didn’t have to park on the street. We found ourselves rehearsing together all of the awesome things with our new house. We were grateful for it, and we were going to enjoy it.

We bought a hot tub a few years ago. I’ve always heard that the majority of people who buy hot tubs end up not using them that often. They often leave them sitting, and they therefore end up having to continue to put money into the hot tub for repairs. At some point they try to sell or even give away the hot tub. I resolved early on that if we were going to have a hot tub, we were going to enjoy it. And we were going to take care of it. We have weekly chores with the hot tub, and my primary chore is the quarterly draining, cleaning and refilling. Taking care of this expensive purchase brings greater appreciation for it. I want what I’ve spent my hard earned money on to last. We take greater pride in the things that we take care of.

Are there purchases I’ve made that I’ve regretted? Absolutely. When the pandemic began in the spring of 2020, we recognized that we were most likely going to be spending a lot of time at home for the next few months. So we decided to buy an above ground pool. I got a killer deal on a pool, and we spent a day putting it together. It took up most of the backyard. We then had to fill it up, and then it took quite awhile before the water was warm enough to swim in. We spent a fair amount of time that summer in it, but it was difficult to keep clean. We kept the water in it through the next fall and winter. And during that winter we had some very cold days. I had bad dreams about waking up to find that the liner had burst and our yard (and my office) had flooded. That thankfully didn’t happen, but it was something I worried about. When we opened it back up that spring, it was even more difficult to clean. We rarely used it that summer, and by the end we had had enough and were ready to get rid of it. We drained it, allowed it to dry, and then took it apart. Mandy posted it on the Buy Nothing Facebook Group, and we gave it away to a nice family.

Soon after getting rid of the pool we decided that we needed to do some work in our backyard. It obviously was in way worse shape than it had been prior to having the pool. We ended up hiring a landscaper, who planted trees and other plants, added hardscape, and planted fescue grass. I enjoy my backyard so much more now. Every time I sit in the Adirondack chairs listening to the fountain, I’m grateful. The pool purchase wasn’t the best one, but it led to this.

Here’s something I’ve learned: Consumerism fights against gratitude and contentment. Why? Because it’s all about getting more. It kills contentment, but it also kills enjoyment. Here’s a question to ask yourself: Do you enjoy the things you have, or do you focus more on what you don’t have?

I experienced this recently. I had decided that perhaps it was time to purchase a new (to me) vehicle. For about a week I took a deep dive on researching vehicles. I had been looking at trucks, but then decided that perhaps I’d get a small SUV. I found a RAV4 Hybrid with really low miles. The dealer was offering me more on my current car than I had thought. The hook was in.

Mandy and I are committed to making large purchase decisions together. She didn’t feel great about it, and if I’m honest, I think I was looking for that because even though the hook was in, I was fighting it. I didn’t really need it, at least not right now. So I said no.

Consumerism is a vicious cycle. We buy something believing that it will satisfy us. And it does for a few days. But then the shine wears off, and we think we need something new. So we push that first purchase to the side and search for the next thing that will bring satisfaction. This cycle continues until you say enough.

We instead intentionally choose to actually enjoy what we have purchased. We are grateful for it. This leads to contentment, which leads to more gratitude, which then leads to greater contentment. It’s a powerful thing.

The day I said no to the new vehicle, I decided that I would practice gratitude and contentment with the car I currently have. It’s a really nice car. The way I practiced this was that I spent two hours washing, waxing, cleaning out and vacuuming it. It looked so nice after I had finished. I was taking pride in what I owned. I was going to enjoy it.

Spend Money on What Makes You Happy

Last week I listened to the Ramit Sethi podcast episode where he interviews Carl & Mindy Jensen. Mindy is the host of the BiggerPockets Money Podcast, and Carl writes at 1500 Days to Freedom.

Before sharing my thoughts on this podcast episode, I should say that one of the things I’ve always appreciated about Dave Ramsey is how caring he is when people are in a rough situation. The conversations are very therapeutic. He speaks truth in a sometimes harsh way, but you can also tell that he cares deeply and wants to help them. Ramit understands the psychology of money in a way that few others do. He’s great at asking questions, and most of the time they make people feel very uncomfortable. This interview was definitely the case.

The tagline of the episode is “We achieved FIRE with $4.3M. Why can’t we enjoy it?” Even though the Jensen’s are financially independent and only work because they want to, they are honest about the fact that money still has a strong grasp on their lives. At one point in the interview Ramit asked Mindy to share about a recent trip to Germany. Her initial response was a negative one, and this was due to how much they spent on airfare. And the reason this was her first response is that she felt bad because she didn’t use points. She paid full price. She’s supposed to be the money expert. How would those in the FIRE community feel about her? As Ramit pressed for more about the trip, she shared about all of the great experiences they had. But this lack of optimizing still loomed over everything.

I’ve listened to several of Ramit’s interviews. There’s often one partner who holds so tightly to the money, which is frustrating to the other partner. That partner wishes his or her partner would stop being so cheap, especially when the amount of money they have in the bank tells them that they don’t have to be cheap. In the case of Carl and Mindy, it seems like both have been called cheap.

I have mixed feelings about this interview. I on many occasions have been labeled as cheap. And while others might have scoffed, I looked at it as a badge of honor. I remember in college even redefining it. Cheap was a negative word. I preferred the word “simplicity”. It’s been 25 years since that revelation, and in the time since I have continued to wrestle with the role of money in my life. I want to continue to listen to Ramit because it doesn’t seem like he struggles with a scarcity mentality when it comes to money. At the root that’s what I struggle with, and it seems to be what Carl and Mindy struggle with as well. There is a fear that our money could run out. It’s not a rational fear, but it’s a fear nonetheless.

At the same time, I often feel like Ramit doesn’t give enough space to allowing people to spend their money on what makes them happy. When I spend money on something that I think isn’t worth it, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. At this point in my life I know what makes me happy, and I have absolutely no problem spending money on those things. Here are some examples…

I enjoy cooking. I actually prefer cooking to going out to eat. Therefore I am ok spending a higher amount of money on good food to cook at home.

I enjoy traveling. While I love optimizing travel through credit card rewards, we still spend a good chunk of money each year on travel. We don’t feel bad about that.

We spend a lot of time at home. Mandy works from home a couple of days a week, and I work from home every day of the week. We enjoy our evenings at home, and therefore have spent money on making this a restful and enjoyable place. Over the years we’ve invested in a screened in back porch, a hot tube, and a pretty backyard.

As important as knowing what it is that makes me happy, it’s perhaps even more important to know what doesn’t make me happy. Here’s a few of those things…

  • New cars
  • Fancy meals
  • Going out every night
  • Nice clothes

My list isn’t important. What is important is to come up with your own list. Be bold in spending money on the things that make you happy. And be equally bold about saying no to those things that don’t.

Know Your Numbers

There are two exercises that I encourage anyone who desires to begin mastering their money to do.

The first is to track your spending for a month. This should lead to you becoming more pro-active in spending your money on the things that matter most. Here is a worksheet you can download. There are also lots of Google Sheet or Excel templates you can download if you prefer a digital option. After going through the exercise you may decide that one month isn’t enough. I still track mine. It’s something that I’ve done for a long time.

The second is to calculate your net worth. How do you do this? You write down all of your assets in one column, and then you write down all of your liabilities in another column. Add up both columns, and then subtract your liabilities from your assets. The number you come up with is your net worth. Here’s a worksheet you can download.

I’ve discovered in my own life and in the lives of friends that there is one primary reason that we don’t take the time to know our numbers. It’s not busyness. It’s fear. We’re afraid that we won’t like what we see, so we choose to remain ignorant. Yet we know that awareness is the first step of any vision. And that’s why it’s important that we know and understand our numbers, even if at the beginning we don’t like what we see. Once we have awareness, we can now make goals.

Money – Stop Playing the Game

I first became familiar with Derek Sivers in 2015 after hearing him on the Tim Ferris podcast. Shortly after I read his first book, Anything You Want, which was recently re-released with additional chapters.

Today I listened to his latest interview on Tim’s podcast. It’s a great episode, and clocks in at a strong three hours. The entire interview is great, but I want to share one thing I learned. If you’d like to listen to it, this part begins around the 2:11:00 mark.

Derek is talking about video games. He shared about how there is the temptation to continue playing even after you’ve beaten the game; even after there are no additional rewards. Then he said, “Isn’t that the definition of addiction?” He then defines addiction as “Continuing a behavior even though it’s not rewarding you anymore.”

Then he made the jump to how he thinks about making money. He said, “It’s a game I decided to stop playing because I had enough.” Understanding what you need, and then making the intentional decision to stop once you get there, is something I’ve been thinking about for awhile now.

Sivers shares two examples of people who have done this. Gotye wrote the song “Somebody that I Used to Know” in 2011. It was a huge hit, and could have carried him for years. Yet a couple of years later he retired. He decided that he didn’t want to be singing that song for the rest of his life.

Cameron Diaz was the 5th highest grossing actress, and yet she too decided to quit. She wanted something different from life.

Sivers then referenced Felix Dennis, the author of How to Get Rich. He said that he read that right after selling CD Baby and had a lot of money. He made the decision to put the company in a trust before the sale, which meant that he never touched any of the $22 million it sold for. I believe I read that he receives a small percentage every year, which pays all of his expenses. He knew that he didn’t need $22 million.

Here’s the quote he shared from Felix Dennis that impacted him: “If I had my time again, knowing what I know today, I would dedicate myself to making just enough to live comfortably, as quickly as I could, by the time I was 35. I would then cash out and retire to write poetry and plant trees.”

Sivers decided to heed this advice. He quit the game of making money. And it seems to me that he continues to bear fruit as a result of this intentional and counter-cultural decision.

So why do we continue to make money when we have enough? It seems like a simple thing, yet it is very normal. I don’t know if it’s the case for everyone, but I see two primary reasons for why we do this.

First, we continue to play the game because we fear that the money will run out. It’s just human nature, and the amount of money that we have in the bank is the not the primary indicator. We can live with a scarcity mentality, or we can live with an abundance mentality. It takes discipline, but it’s our choice.

The second reason we continue to play the game of making money is that it makes us feel better about ourselves. I believe that we were created to be creators and cultivators. This is part of our core identity. Yet it’s so easy for it to be taken to an extreme and become corrupted.

It’s important to understand your motives for making money. It’s important to understand your motives of why you want to do a certain deal. Sometimes we make money because we need to eat. That’s where things start. But as we get older and grow in our careers, our motives change.

Our identity is tied up in our work. When we are producing, we feel better about ourselves. Ego can be a good thing, but it can also lead us into dangerous territory.

In a future post I plan to share how I’ve been working through this issue in my own life and business.

Connect Your Money to Your Vision

In my Mastering Money Workshop we discuss spending, investing and earning money, but before we get to those great topics, we begin with vision. Why is that? Because I’ve learned that everything flows from vision. Everyday each one of us makes financial decisions. They may be small or they may be large. But whether we like it or not, they flow from the vision and values that we have. The problem comes when we haven’t taken time to ensure that our vision and values are actually ours and not those that culture encourages us to have.

I love this quote from Chris Mamula…

We align our money with our values to build the lives we want rather than the ones we’re “supposed” to live. This requires intentionality, doing things differently than the majority who surround you.
Chris Mamula, Choose FI

Culture is always trying to sell us on what will make us happy, but we have to make sure that we are digging deeper to uncover what is truth and what is a lie. As Chris says, it takes intentionality.

The week before my first workshop, I sent out a survey to all those who had signed up. One of the questions that I asked was “What does financial independence mean to you?” Here are some of the responses…

  • Having well laid out values that drive our financial decisions. Having enough money for everything we need and some of the things we want. Having practical financial behaviors that we use routinely and that can adapt as our life changes.
  • Freedom from the fear and the lack of time that financial challenges can cause. Freedom to do work that is fulfilling, and to do it on a timeline that brings me joy. Freedom to be generous.
  • Knowing where and how money is spent, having funds to do things our family enjoys, living within comfortable means, ability to make financial choices in my children’s best interests, and having a comfortable amount of discretionary money.
  • Feeling more free to travel, and be generous. Using money to celebrate life well.
  • Relationships not being burdened with money trouble. Being able to afford to have children.
  • Feeling safe and having a large margin for hospitality, travel, and including/sharing those things with others!
  • Less worry when I do want to treat myself
  • Being able to support myself and my family in the present and future without having to compromise too much on expenses.
  • Not worried every month if we have enough.

As you can see, a question like this gets to the root desires that we have. Financial independence isn’t first and foremost about having a certain amount of money in the bank. It starts with those hopes closest to your heart. Things to buy might be a part of it, but not nearly as much as freedom, relationships and experiences.

Once we take time to clarify the vision for our life, we can then begin to develop the strategies and tactics to get us from here to there.

But it starts with vision.

Why I Write About Money

For as long as I can remember I’ve been fascinated by money. I remember a time growing up when I was aware of the fact that we didn’t have much money. And I remember times when I was aware that we were very comfortable. I don’t believe there was a time in my life where I ever felt that my parents didn’t have the financial resources to take care of me. We always had enough. Though “need” and “want” often get confused, I don’t really remember times when my parents said no to something I needed.

I have always been frugal. I’ve always loved getting a good deal. Even when my parents were buying things for me, I never wanted to pay full price.

When I was in college I opened my first mutual fund after reading a book by Larry Burkett. And then after college I moved to Nashville. My first job had me sitting at a desk doing accounts receivable all day, but my manager allowed me to listen to the radio through headphones. It was there that I discovered The Dave Ramsey Show, and I listened to it everyday.

It was from listening to Dave Ramsey that I began budgeting and investing. I didn’t make much money, but my expenses were very low. In a notebook I wrote down every expense I had on a daily basis. Through Dave Ramsey I was also introduced to compound interest, which taught me that the earlier I got started investing, the better. So that’s what I did. I opened a Roth IRA, contributing $166/month.

Mandy and I were dating at the time and were seriously contemplating getting married. We had some conversations about money, but not that many. I’ve come to believe in the years since that every person has a relationship with money. Some relationships are good, while others are not so good. And we’re often unaware of how that relationship impacts our daily decisions. And then when we get married, we bring that relationship with money into our new marriage.

We’ve all heard the stats that say that money is often at the center of strife within a marriage, and this was true with us as well. Because we hadn’t taken the time as individuals to understand the role that money played in our own lives, we had no idea how to bring it into our marriage. It’s human nature to assume that everyone thinks like we do. This can get us into trouble on a lot of things, but it’s definitely true with money. Often one spouse is a spender at heart, while another is a saver. We found early on that we’re both spenders, but what we spend money on is different.

Mandy and I have been married for almost 24 years. There were a few years in which we both wondered if our conflicts over money might do us in. I imagine I’ll share some of that in future posts. But for now let me just say that we met the conflicts head on and over time learned how to talk about money. We developed some habits that have not only allowed us to survive but actually to thrive. We still come at money differently, but we’ve learned how to value and learn from those differences.

So money has impacted my individual life as well as my marriage. I’ve also seen how it impacts the lives of others, in both positive and negative ways. When I was a young pastor, money was one of those things that I tended to avoid talking about. I knew it was a taboo topic, and I really just didn’t know how to talk about it. But over time I began to understand what a central and critical role it played in people’s lives, so I began to learn how to talk about it.

In November, 2022 I taught my first Mastering Money workshop at my church. Over the previous six months I had spent countless hours going back over my favorite resources and then writing the curriculum. That Saturday morning in November I spent three hours with a group of about 20 people from my church. There was great discussion amongst the group, and I think we all took things from the morning that will continue to impact the way we handle our finances.

I remember being exhausted when I got home that Saturday, but I also remember feeling very grateful and satisfied. I had spent many hours preparing for this, but I felt like it was totally worth it. I had helped to meet a real felt need, and I had thoroughly enjoyed it. Over the coming weeks I decided that I wanted to help people learn how to master their money. This was a clarity that I normally do not have, but I had it with this. I didn’t know exactly what that would look like, but I wanted to begin to try to figure it out.

Savings vs. Profit

I just finished listening to JD Roth’s Audible Original How to Achieve Financial Independence and Retire Early. There wasn’t a ton of new material for me, but I still found it a great resource, and one that I would recommend if you’d like to learn more about the subject.

There was one part, though, that, while simple, was something I had never given any thought to before. He said that most folks don’t get that excited about talking about saving money. He thinks it would be better if we treated this topic like businesses do. They don’t call it savings. They call it profit. Income minus expenses in a business is profit. Profit allows you to grow and expand. It’s actually tied to growth.

Why don’t we feel the same about our personal finances? Income minus expenses equals savings, but it’s normally haphazard: If there’s any money left at the end of the month, I guess it’s savings! But what would a shift in our thinking produce? If we saw it as profit, would we be more excited about it? Would we see it as a sign of growth? As something to be celebrated? Something to think about.

Formative Books – Money

I’m starting a new series on the books that have shaped me most. For this first post, I’m focusing on money. These ten books have brought both insight and inspiration to me through the years. Rather than listing them in order of most formative, I’m listing them chronologically, from when I first encountered them.

First up is Financial Peace, by Dave Ramsey. After graduating from college I moved to Nashville. My first job was a boring desk job, but I was able to listen to the radio while working. One day I found Dave Ramsey’s show, and I listened to it just about everyday. I bought a copy of the book and devoured it. It was from this book, and the radio show, that I learned to budget, to stay of out debt, and to invest in mutual funds. I opened a Roth IRA after reading it.

Next up is Rich Dad, Poor Dad, by Robert Kiyosaki. It was 1998 or 1999, and I was working for a financial services company selling mutual funds. The lady who was training me gave me a copy of this book. At the time my mind wasn’t ready for the radical vision of business that this book laid out. However, more stuck with me than I realized. This became clear as I began investing in real estate. One of the big ideas of this book is that you should buy assets that produce cash flow. For the past fifteen years or so Mandy and I have been buying rental properties (assets) that provide cash flow. At the moment we reinvest that cash flow back into the business, but at some point down the road (around nine years from now) we will start living off that cash flow.

Free: Spending Your Time and Money on What Matters Most, by Mark & Lisa Scandrette, is a wonderful book. I actually brought Mark in to teach on this at my church sometime after he wrote this book. It might have been the first book I read that equated time with money. You’ll see that theme repeated in a few other books.

I’m listing these next two books together. The Big Short, by Michael Lewis, and Too Big to Fail, by Aaron Ross Sorkin, both tell the story of the 2008 global recession. I have been fascinated by what happened a little over a decade ago. And has been said before, the best way to know the future is to study the past. A lot can be learned by what happened during this time. Both of theses books were made into great movies as well.

Money: Master the Game, was Tony Robbins’ first book in two decades, and, as Steve Forbes mentions on the cover, it is “a goldmine of moneymaking information.” It’s a thick book, but very readable, and totally worth the effort. The interviews at the end are absolutely incredible. His followup book, Unshakable, co-authored with Peter Mallouk, is also great, especially the final chapter.

I first heard about the FIRE Movement close to three years ago. FIRE stands for Financial Independence Retire Early. It has been a game changer for me. Playing with FIRE, by Scott Rieckens, is a great overview. The author shares his journey of learning more about this movement. He also made a great documentary that Adam and I went to see (back when we went to movie theaters).

Quit Like a Millionaire is Kristy Shen and Bryce Leung’s story of retiring in their early thirties. They’ve been traveling the world ever since. Or at least until COVID. It is both inspiring and very practical.

Finally, JL Collins’ The Simple Path to Wealth is a book that I’ve now read twice. I’ll continue to come back to it. He believes that we often make finances way too complex. Collins originally wrote this book as a series of blog posts for his daughter. I’ve found the content very helpful.

Lifeonaire, by Steve Cook, is a recent find for me. I first heard about this book on the BiggerPockets podcast. It’s another fictional story, and as you can probably guess, it’s a play on the word “millionaire.” Adam and I are reading it together right now. There’s so much in this book that I want him to understand as he prepares to go to college.

I hope that you find some of these books as helpful as I have.

Three Things You Need to be Happy

A few weeks ago I read a great post from the fine folks at Millennial Revolution. The post was called “Is FIRE for Everyone?” FIRE stands for Financial Independence Retire Early. In the post she shared about a few people who had retired early but then had gone back to work due to boredom, loneliness and depression. She shared that she had recently read a book that talked about three things that you need in order to be happy. Those three things are…

1. Security
2. Satisfaction
3. Social

Security means you have enough money that you don’t have to worry about it. Satisfaction is what you get when the way you spend your day makes you happy and brings meaning and fulfillment. Social means that you have good friends.

She said that for those who retire early, obviously #1 is happening. The other two, however, are a bit trickier. For a lot of us, these two things are tied to our work, and when we’re no longer working, it can be difficult to find alternatives; hence the boredom, loneliness and depression.

I have not retired, though two years ago I did retire from my first career of being a pastor. Taking a job off the table gave me more time to focus on my business and investments, and that has in turn led to us being in a good place as far as #1 Security goes. But it’s also meant that these second two things have been tough.

My twenties and thirties were defined by passion. Our two moves across the country and then starting a church from scratch were fueled by passion. There were always lots of things missing in my life, but passion was always there. Though there were some negatives over being driven almost solely by passion, overall it led to some good things. Now that I’m out of vocational ministry, I’ve wondered what I’m passionate about. I love real estate. I love helping people buy and sell homes, and I love breathing life into old homes through the renovations we do. But it’s not the same kind of passion. So I’m in the process of thinking through those areas where I want to invest some time.

As far as this final piece, it’s tough to gauge that when we’re six months into various degrees of quarantine. Community is so different from what it was. I think we’re all having to figure what levels of social interaction we need to be healthy. There are probably some things we’ve been fine giving up; other things not so much.